Problems dumping Manic Karts

Feltzkrone
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Feltzkrone »

At the moment I am finally ripping the audio tracks with my notebook's drive. EAC (configured as described in the guide) in combination with that drive detected a pregap of 02.74 on Track 2, which is what I expected EAC to detect there. At the end I will come up with a redum.org dump - made as described in the guide. Before posting the results in the Dumps subforum I will wait for the real Plextor to arrive and redump the CD with that drive (with the help of px_d8) and hope that the results are the same. If they are the same, i.e. EAC detects 02.74 as the pregap, too + px_d8 leads to the same factory write offset and the checksums of all tracks match... then I'm done, would you agree?
Image

By the way: The reported TOC came from ImgBurn, i.e. the TOC as the drive reports it. The TOC found on CDs usually contain the positions of the first INDEX 01(!) sector of each Track. What the beta tool you are using reports are the LBAs of the first INDEX 00(!) sector of each Track, which perfectly makes sense: For example on Track 5 the TOC says it begins at LBA 121439, EAC says it has a pregap of 01.74 (on all my three drives) and the beta tool reports LBA 121290, which is 149 sectors (=01.74) before the LBA contained in the CD's TOC.

EDIT: I have taken the liberty to override some options in EAC on the Extraction Method tab after Detect Read Features in a way that reactivates EAC's built-in methods of error detection, i.e. my drive said it was capable of reporting C2 errors and having no cache, both may lead to problems if the drive isn't really capable of and only told so.
Last edited by Feltzkrone on Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Rocknroms
Posts: 858
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Rocknroms »

About TOC, ok if it's imgburn so gaps for other tracks is right, by the way it's a wrong toc as it appends gaps to previous track.
I don't know if it's good to change options found by EAC.
As I said it's better to wait what plextor will say also because it can be that offset correction is on 2.00 but pregap is 2.74, so you will have to dump disc with offset taken by d8 command but with pregap from sub (in this situation as those sectors are audio you'll have to descramble 0.74 sectors because they cannot be only 0x00). If the opposite you'll have to take the reverse and scramble. I hope I explained well the matter.
My patch requests thread
--------------------------------
Feltzkrone
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Feltzkrone »

To be honest: I think I didn't understand what you wanted to tell me. Image

What I don't get is the 02.00 / 02.74 / 00.74 scrambling and offset problem. So you actually say that when there is a pregap of 02.74 (which consists of Audio sectors throughout) it is still possible that sector at -02.00 must be inspected for determining the factory write offset? Hmmm... I get scrambled bytes throughout the whole sector at -02.74 (and a Mode 1 sync), I get a few ones at -02.73 followed by zeroes.

But instead of words let the data speak (each line is 16 = 0x10 bytes):

Code: Select all

Dump of Sector 41734 / -02.74:

607028241E9B486B76AF66FC2AC1DF10  `p($..Hkv.f.*...
580C3A85D3231DD9C99A49AFE2E74854  X.:..#....I...HT
36BF56F03EC4175BA9C9F5D1871C6289  6.V.>..[......b.
E9A6CEFAD4431F71C824569B7EEB604F  .....C.q.$V.~.`O
68342E975C6EB9EC72CDE5958B2F275C  h4..\n..r..../'\
1AB9CB32D7559EBF28701EA4087B46A3  ...2.U..(p...{F.
72F9E582CB2197586EBAAC733DE5D18B  r....!.Xn..s=...
F61FE1DAB6CF36D416DF4ED88371977B  ......6...N..q.{
2EA35C79F9E2C2C99196EC6ECDEC558D  ..\y.......n..U.
FF25D029009B9534C713A321B9D872DA  .%.)...4...!..r.
A59B3B2B535F7DF82182700404268EFE  ..;+S_}.!.p..&..
1E23780C2285D9A31AF9CB02D7419EB0  .#x."........A..
68742EA75C7ABDC99B4D2FD188C7D81C  ht..\z...M/.....
5A89FB26C35AD1FB1C4349F1F6C47943  Z..&.Z...CI...yC
37B7215000FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF00  7.!P............
089833610028001E80086006A802FE81  ..3a.(....`.....
80606028281E9E886866AEAAFC7F01E0  .``((...hf......
004800368016E00EC80456837EE1E048  .H.6......V.~..H
4836B696F6EEC6CC52D5FD9F01A8007E  H6......R......~
80206018280A9E8728629EA9A87EFEA0  ..`.(...(b...~..
407830229419AF4AFC3701D6805EE038  @x0"...J.7...^.8
4812B68DB6E5B6CB36D756DEBED8705A  H.......6.V...pZ
A43B3B53537DFDE181886066A82AFE9F  .;;SS}....`f.*..
0068002E801C6009E806CE82D4619F68  .h....`......a.h
682EAE9C7C69E1EEC84C56B5FEF70046  h...|i...LV....F
8032E015880F26841AE34B09F746C6B2  .2....&...K..F..
D2F59D8729A29EF9A842FEB180746027  ....)....B...t`'
681AAE8B3C6751EABC4F31F414474F72  h...<gQ..O1..GOr
B425B75B36BB56F37EC5E053083DC691  .%.[6.V.~..S.=..
92EC6D8DEDA58DBB25B35B35FB57037E  ..m.....%.[5.W.~
81E0604828369E96E86ECEAC547DFF61  ..`H(6...n..T}.a
8028601EA8087E86A062F829829EE1A8  .(`...~..b.)....
487EB6A076F826C29AD1AB1C7F49E036  H~..v.&......I.6
C816D68EDEE4584B7AB76336A9D6FEDE  ......XKz.c6....
C058503ABC1331CDD4559F7F28201E98  .XP:..1..U..(...
086A86AF22FC1981CAE057083E869062  .j..".....W.>..b
EC298DDEE5984B2AB75F36B816F28EC5  .)....K*._6.....
A4533B7DD3619DE8698EAEE47C4B61F7  .S;}.a..i...|Ka.
6846AEB2FC7581E7204A98372A969F2E  hF...u...J.7*...
E81C4E89F466C76AD2AF1DBC09B1C6F4  ..N..f.j........
52C77D92A1ADB87DB2A1B5B87732A695  R.}....}....w2..
BAEF330C15C5CF13140DCF4594332F55  ..3........E.3/U
DC3F19D00ADC0719C28AD1A71C7A89E3  .?...........z..
26C9DAD6DB1EDB485B76BB66F36AC5EF  &......H[v.f.j..
130C0DC5C593132DCDDD9599AF2AFC1F  .......-.....*..
01C80056803EE010480C3685D6E31EC9  ...V.>..H.6.....
C856D6BEDEF058443AB35335FDD7019E  .V....XD:.S5....
8068602EA81C7E89E066C82AD69F1EE8  .h`...~..f.*....
084E86B462F76986AEE2FC4981F6E046  .N..b.i....I...F
C832D6959EEF284C1EB5C87716A68EFA  .2....(L...w....
E4430B71C76452AB7DBF61B028741EA7  .C.q.dR.}.a.(t..
487AB6A336F9D6C2DED1985C6AB9EF32  Hz..6......\j..2
CC1595CF2F141C0F49C436D356DDFED9  ..../...I.6.V...
805AE03B0813468DF2E5858B232759DA  .Z.;..F.....#'Y.
BADB331B55CB7F17600EA8047E836061  ..3.U...`...~.`a
E8284E9EB468776EA6AC7AFDE30189C0  .(N..hwn..z.....
66D02ADC1F19C80AD6871EE28849A6B6  f.*..........I..
FAF6C306D1C2DC5199FC6AC1EF104C0C  .......Q..j...L.
35C5D7131E8DC86596AB2EFF5C4039F0  5......e....\@9.
12C40D9345ADF33D85D1A31C79C9E2D6  ....E..=....y...
C99ED6E85ECEB85472BF65B02B341F57  ....^..Tr.e.+4.W
483EB69076EC26CDDAD59B1F2B481F76  H>..v.&.....+H.v
8826E69ACAEB170F4E8434635769FEAE  .&......N.4cWi..
C07C5021FC1841CAB057343E97506EBC  .|P!..A..W4>.Pn.
2C71DDE4598B7AE7630AA9C73ED2905D  ,q..Y.z.c...>..]
AC39BDD2F19D8469A36EF9EC42CDF195  .9.....i.n..B...
846F236C19EDCACD9715AE8F3C6411EB  .o#l........<d..
4C4F75F427075A82BB21B35875FAA703  LOu.'.Z..!.Xu...
3A81D3205DD8399A92EB2D8F5DA439BB  :...].9...-.].9.
52F37D85E1A30879C6A2D2F99D82E9A1  R.}....y........
8EF86442AB71BF64702B641F6B482F76  ..dB.q.dp+d.kH/v
9C26E9DACEDB145B4F7B74236759EABA  .&.....[O{t#gY..
CF331415CF4F14340F57443EB35075FC  .3...O.4.WD>.Pu.
2701DA805B203B58137A8DE32589DB26  '...[.;X.z..%..&
DB5ADB7B1B634B69F76EC6AC52FDFD81  .Z.{.cKi.n..R...
81A0607828229E99A86AFEAF007C0021  ..`x("...j...|.!
C018500ABC0731C29451AF7C7C21E1D8  ..P...1..Q.||!..
485AB6BB36F356C5FED3005DC0399012  HZ..6.V....].9..
EC0D8DC5A5933B2DD35D9DF9A982FEE1  ......;-.]......
80486036A816FE8EC064502B7C1F61C8  .H`6.....dP+|.a.
28569EBEE8704EA4347B57637EA9E07E  (V...pN.4{Wc~..~
C82056983EEA904F2C341DD7499EB6E8  ..V.>..O,4..I...
76CEA6D47ADF631829CA9ED7285E9EB8  v...z.c.)...(^..
6872AEA5BC7B31E35449FF76C026D01A  hr...{1.TI.v.&..
DC0B19C74AD2B71DB689B6E6F6CAC6D7  ....J...........
12DE8D9865AAAB3F3F50103C0C11C5CC  ....e..??P.<....
5315FDCF0194006F402C301DD4099F46  S......o@,0....F
E832CE95946F2F6C1C2DC9DD96D9AEDA  .2...o/l.-......
FC5B01FB40437031E4144B4F777426A7  .[..@Cp1..KOwt&.
5AFABB033341D5F05F0438035281FDA0  Z...3A.._.8.R...
41B830729425AF5B3C3B51D37C5DE1F9  A.0r.%.[<;Q.|]..
8842E6B18AF467076A82AF21BC1871CA  .B....g.j..!..q.
A4573B7E93606DE82D8E9DA469BB6EF3  .W;~.`m.-...i.n.
6C45EDF30D85C5A31339CDD2D59D9F29  lE.......9.....)
A81EFE884066B02AF41F074802B681B6  ....@f.*...H....
E076C826D69ADEEB184F4AB437375696  .v.&.....OJ.77V.
BEEEF04C4435F35705FE830061C02850  ...LD5.W....a.(P
1EBC0871C6A452FB7D8361A1E8784EA2  ...q..R.}.a..xN.
B479B762F6A986FEE2C0499036EC16CD  .y.b......I.6...
CED5945F2F781C2289D9A6DAFADB031B  ..._/x."........
41CB7057643EAB507F7C2021D8185A8A  A.pWd>.P.|.!..Z.
BB27335A95FB2F035C01F9C042D0319C  .'3Z../.\...B.1.
1469CF6ED42C5F5DF8398292E1AD887D  .i.n.,_].9.....}
A6A1BAF87302A5C1BB10734C25F5DB07  ....s.....sL%...
1B428B71A7647AAB633F69D02EDC1C59  .B.q.dz.c?i....Y
C9FAD6C31ED1C85C56B9FEF2C0459033  .......\V....E.3
2C15DDCF19940AEF470C3285D5A31F39  ,.......G.2....9
C812D68D9EE5A84B3EB75076BC26F1DA  .......K>.Pv.&..
C45B137B4DE37589E726CA9AD72B1E9F  .[.{M.u..&...+..
486836AE96FC6EC1EC504DFC3581D720  Hh6...n..PM.5...
5E98386A92AF2DBC1DB1C9B456F77EC6  ^.8j..-.....V.~.
A052F83D8291A1AC787DE2A189B866F2  .R.=....x}....f.
AAC5BF13300DD4059F432831DE94586F  ....0....C(1..Xo
7AAC233DD9D19ADC6B19EF4ACC3715D6  z.#=....k..J.7..
8F1EE4084B46B772F6A586FB22C35991  ....KF.r....".Y.
FAEC430DF1C58453237DD9E19AC86B16  ..C....S#}....k.
AF4EFC3441D7705EA4387B52A37DB9E1  .N.4A.p^.8{R.}..
B2C87596A72EFA9C4329F1DEC458537A  ..u.....C)...XSz
BDE33189D466DF6AD82F1A9C0B29C75E  ..1..f.j./...).^
D2B85DB2B9B5B2F735869722EE998C6A  ..].....5.."...j
E5EF0B0C0745C2B311B5CC7715E68F0A  .....E.....w....
E4070B428771A2A479BB62F36985EEE3  ...B.q..y.b.i...
0C49C5F6D306DDC2D9919AEC6B0DEF45  .I..........k..E
8C3325D5DB1F1B480B768766E2AAC9BF  .3%....H.v.f....
16F00EC40453437DF1E184486376A9E6  .....SC}...Hcv..
FECAC057103E8C1065CC2B15DF4F1834  ...W.>..e.+..O.4
0A97472EB29C75A9E73ECA90572C3E9D  ..G...u..>..W,>.
D0699C2EE9DC4ED9F45AC77B12A34DB9  .i....N..Z.{..M.
F5B2C73592972DAE9DBC69B1EEF44C47  ...5..-...i...LG
75F2A705BA833321D5D85F1AB80B3287  u.....3!.._...2.
55A2BF39B012F40D8745A2B339B5D2F7  U..9.....E..9...
1D8689A2E6F98AC2E7118A8C6725EA9B  ............g%..
0F2B441F734825F69B06EB42CF719424  .+D.sH%....B.q.$
6F5B6C3B6DD36D9DEDA98DBEE5B04B34  o[l;m.m.......K4
375756BEBEF0704424335B55FB7F0360  7WV...pD$3[U...`
01E8004E80346017680EAE847C6361E9  ...N.4`.h...|ca.
E84ECEB454777F66A02AF81F028801A6  .N..Tw.f.*......
807AE0230819C68AD2E71D8A89A726FA  .z.#..........&.
9AC32B11DF4C5835FA97032E81DC6059  ..+..LX5......`Y
E83ACE93146DCF6D942DAF5DBC39B1D2  .:...m.m.-.].9..
F45D8779A2A2F9B982F2E185886326A9  .].y.........c&.
DAFEDB005B403B7013640DEB458F7324  ....[@;p.d..E.s$
25DB5B1B7B4B637769E6AECAFC5701FE  %.[.{Kcwi....W..
80406030CC4DDAF2486436AB56FF7EC0  .@`0.M..Hd6.V.~.
2E403AC90A91C72C529DFDA981BEE070  .@:....,R......p
4824369B56EB7ECF6054283F5E90386C  H$6.V.~.`T(?^.8l
12ADCDBD95B1AF347C1761CEA8547EBF  .......4|.a..T~.


Dump of Sector 41735 / -02.73:

607028241E9B486B76AF66FC2AC1DF10  `p($..Hkv.f.*...
580C3A85D3231DD9C99AE7004F484854  X.:..#......OHHT
36BF56F03EC4175B5DC9F5D1871C6289  6.V.>..[].....b.
E9A6CEFAD4431F71C824569B7EEB604F  .....C.q.$V.~.`O
68342E975C6EB9EC72CDE5958B2F275C  h4..\n..r..../'\
1AB9CB32D7559EBF28701EA4087B46A3  ...2.U..(p...{F.
72F9E582CB2197586EBAAC733DE5D18B  r....!.Xn..s=...
C9D5DC10B6CF36D416DF4ED88371977B  ......6...N..q.{
2EA35C79F9E2C2C99196EC6ECDEC558D  ..\y.......n..U.
FF25F122CEF53DB780F5A321B9D872DA  .%."..=....!..r.
A59B3B2B535F7DF821821504B82657FE  ..;+S_}.!....&W.
1E23780C2285D9A31AF9CB02D7419EB0  .#x."........A..
68742EA75C7A0CA769E91437F0EBD81C  ht..\z..i..7....
5A89FB26C35AD1FB1C4349F1F6C4E943  Z..&.Z...CI....C
7FB7F950000000000000000000000000  ...P............
... rest of sector is zeroes, so I cut it here ...
User avatar
Rocknroms
Posts: 858
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Rocknroms »

It was an example, obviously you cannot determine pregap on audio sectors, but reverse sentence is possible: offset on 2.74 but pregap on 2.00 --> this will take 74 sectors of audio to data track and they have to take audio mode so you have to move 74sec of 0x00 without changing mode (I know it's weird, but if there's a mastering error that report this we have to save it as it is unless someone who mastered disc will prove the correct one).

Sorry but data you reported doesn't seem scrambled bytes but offset correction garbage. I repeat it's better to wait also Fireball sentence or at least a sub with real plextor.
With a d8 command compatible drive you can also dump disc with cdtoimg (http://vigi.dremora.com/cdtoimg.rar), it will dump all disc in scramble format so you can get the real lenght of track01-02.
My patch requests thread
--------------------------------
Feltzkrone
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Feltzkrone »

Ahhh... now I understand as I wanted to dump the CD of "Nick Faldo's Championship Golf"....

EAC detects the pregap as 00.00 (maybe because there is MCN subchannel data in it), the subchannel data itself tells -03.00 (checked with CDTool) but at -02.00 I find the sector with scrambled/garbage bytes which can be used to determine the factory write offset (+80). Well, it just tells us that it's pretty well mastered, according to ECMA-130. In this case we have a pregap of 03.00 consisting of 01.00 of Mode 1 sectors and 02.00 of Audio sectors.
User avatar
Rocknroms
Posts: 858
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Rocknroms »

Yes, if real pregap is right you have to take offset you'll find at 2.00 but pregap will be 3.00 (it's better to use d8 command to avoid errors) and as you said
In this case we have a pregap of 03.00 consisting of 01.00 of Mode 1 sectors and 02.00 of Audio sectors.
My patch requests thread
--------------------------------
F1ReB4LL
Posts: 3395
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by F1ReB4LL »

Looks like you have a very shitty drive(s). Either one of them (DVDRAM GMA-4082N, LG2.sub) "decided" to fix the gap subchannels part after meeting the first gap (00 02 73) sector, or the other two (DVD-RAM GSA-H55N and PX-740A) refused to return the proper data (and according to your words - it's the 2nd case). PX-740A (=BenQ DW1640) - is it able to read the first audio gap on any disc at all? My DW1650 gives read error on 99% when dumping the pre-audio datatracks with IsoBuster - it refuses to read "errorneous" zeroed sectors as a part of datatrack, your case is probably the same.
Feltzkrone
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Feltzkrone »

F1ReB4LL wrote:Looks like you have a very shitty drive(s). Either one of them (DVDRAM GMA-4082N, LG2.sub) "decided" to fix the gap subchannels part after meeting the first gap (00 02 73) sector, or the other two (DVD-RAM GSA-H55N and PX-740A) refused to return the proper data (and according to your words - it's the 2nd case). PX-740A (=BenQ DW1640) - is it able to read the first audio gap on any disc at all? My DW1650 gives read error on 99% when dumping the pre-audio datatracks with IsoBuster - it refuses to read "errorneous" zeroed sectors as a part of datatrack, your case is probably the same.
Yes, PX-740A is the worst one, it can't read any pregap sector at all and with IsoBuster it behaves like you described. The only unusual thing is that this is the first CD on which GSA-H55N refuses to read the whole pregap data. With other CDs it has no problems. I must admit that it's really best to wait for the real Plextor to arrive and create a proper .sub with it. Image
F1ReB4LL
Posts: 3395
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by F1ReB4LL »

Feltzkrone wrote:Yes, PX-740A is the worst one, it can't read any pregap sector at all and with IsoBuster it behaves like you described.
It's very good, though, when you dump CDs using the EAC and IsoBuster (not PerfectRip), because in most cases you don't need to resize the data track (only fix the last sector with cdmage, BenQs fail on reading it). Of course, you need to read the audio tracks with EAC on another drive - benqs don't support C2 errors reporting, no overreading into lead-out and, of course, no post-data-track audio pregap reading.
Feltzkrone
Posts: 31
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2026 1:26 am

Re: Problems dumping Manic Karts

Post by Feltzkrone »

PX-716A arrived today, checked factory write offset with it. First (supposed) pregap sector contains 32 scrambled bytes (i.e. 8 samples), drive has a +30 read offset so factory write offset should be -22. Then I used CloneCD to create a .sub file and I am surprised, CloneCD didn't destroy the subchannel data this time. The reason might be that the PX-716A has a constant subchannel offset of zero.

Here are the subs: http://rapidshare.com/files/295129132/M … 6A.7z.html (mediafire didn't work today)

From what I can see with "Subcode analzyer" the pregap is 02.74. @F1ReB4LL & Rocknroms: Can you confirm this pregap using this .sub file?


EDIT: Usage of PX_D8 returned this

Code: Select all

C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Feltzkrone>px_d8 r 0
Sector: 0
MSF: 00:02:00
Combined offset: +32 bytes / +8 samples
Last edited by Feltzkrone on Mon Oct 19, 2009 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Post Reply