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I noticed that GC extension was changed from .gcm to .iso

Ok those are 2048 DVD images and it could be right to name them .iso, by the way 99% of scene releases named them .gcm, rawdump named them .gcm (and named .iso "stripped" images, I don't know what it does as I never used that option), I don't know other programs, and moreover GC games are basically 1.5GB roms ported to mini-dvd (do a search to see the beta carts for Dolphin / carts used to develop all GC games), so...

Rocknroms wrote:Ok, now I understand... another change made only to help leechers (see pakkiso compression), am I wrong?

ok, so what's wrong with pakkiso? help me to understand please
besides whatever might be wrong with it - you don't have to use it

Rocknroms wrote:Oh well, if different data frame has nothing to say, probably it's real we can dump GC/Wii with plextors! You have said this.
Nobody said 2048 is RAW, neither me. Images are extracted RAW and decrypted/unscrambled/converted on the fly to 2048 but you cannot call these normal ISOs because of all the points I wrote above. It's like affirming "GDroms are CDs" and in DB at least Wii discs are called "Wii Optical Discs" and not "Wii DVDs", same has to be changed IMO for GC.

i don't know anything about GC, but since you mention DC -
on logical level they're just ordinary tracks the same as on CD
they're not handled differently (except shortened naming which is wrong imho & metadata), why should they be?
if it's similar with GC how will extension help?
what has leechers to do with all of this?

Hey themabus did I say something bad about pakkiso? Di you read it?

On your logical level, as you said, even DVDs are CDs. And also LP are CD. And if you want even a spiral is a CD.
On my logical level: if a "rounded digital media" cannot be read by the normal way or if only some kind of drives can read it, I cannot call it a standard CD or DVD.

Ok another point to chaos. By the way it's not so important, it's not me who wanted no-intro convention, but it seems that somebody is using no-intro convention to match his wishes (see also what Fireball said), am I wrong?

Read your words

why should they be?

Because you have choosen no-intro and naming convention have a different extention for Nintendo stuff? Because they are non common DVDs?

if it's similar with GC how will extension help?

previous reply, moreover *iso Gamecube images you can find around are normally hacked, fixed, etc. and *.gcm is the regular extension used for Gamecube games.

what has leechers to do with all of this?

Huh, it has a lot to do. Why did you want no-intro (including all other changes)? Read again all the posts about (the old ones).

I reapeat again, simply reply "We change extention because we like *.iso"

iR0b0t, ok so why?

another change made only to help leechers (see pakkiso compression)

i'm sorry, this must be something good then, ok

On your logical level, as you said, even DVDs are CDs.

no, it's completely different medium - it's not CD, just larger.
i mean: all differences you want to note about DC GDs or PSX CDs or Saturn CDs or PCE CDs, etc.,
since all of those do have some non standart characteristics
(i hope you don't want to have different extension every time something doesn't match with ISO specifications),
you can do with metadata, if required at all
(well it's not particularly useful for PSX or Saturn, imho, since you can not reproduce those differences anyway
and could you reproduce them it would be the same thing for whole set, so why bother marking every medium?)
but ther's no need to make it so apparent, imho

Because you have choosen no-intro and naming convention have a different extention for Nintendo stuff? Because they are non common DVDs?

previous reply, moreover *iso Gamecube images you can find around are normally hacked, fixed, etc. and *.gcm is the regular extension used for Gamecube games.

listen, i won't predend i know anything about GC, but if it's the same as with those CDs -
basically moded DVD that do resolve to DVD on logical level after processing, i don't think it matters
if it's something different, like different medium - by all means, name it anything you want

Who ever said to mark any media? I'm talking about Nintendo optical media, and mainly Gamecube **. Also PSP needs another extension or are they DVDs?

I said "on your logical level" and not on mine. By the way GDs are well different from any other CDs and we have them splitted in track, so no custom extension is needed.
Once someone will decide to join tracks probably they will need a custom extension.

** ok, I'm tired, I reported many hints about naming them .GCM. Instead I got replies about naming them *.ISO that mean only "because we like it this way" or "because they are DVDs" or "I prefer to talk about something else", not so costructive and wise. So do what you like until project will go nowhere.

GCM is just a renamed ISO, so why not just stick with the standard?  Why some people need to create new extensions for the exact same format is beyond me.  Just like .bin and .img.  They are pretty much the exact same thing anyway so sticking with the standard (.bin and .iso) is ideal from my point of view.  But like always, at the end of the day, I truly don't care what naming/extension/tags/etc are used, I just go with the flow.

Rocknroms wrote:The only other system with needs a specific drive to dump its discs is Dreamcast because it's not a standard CD (you can say that all systems in DB are not standard CD, but this is not true. Protection, subcodes or TOC don't change anything! The only non-standard one is DC). And I never said to rename DC extension.

it doesn't matter how many drives can read what
hardware gets more flexible with time and standards get expandet - it's an variable you're basing your classification upon

Dreamcast's GDs are the same Saturn protection + HD area + modded TOC

what about 90 minute CDs, 99 minute ones? Plextor's GigaRec? Overburning?
TOC you can modify yourself with .ccd for example
twin sectors, deliberate bad sectors - not every drive will read those right
CDs with larger offsets? - you need drive capable of overreading to access this data
and not so long ago you basically wouldn't be able to read RAW data as well as full subcode at all
you do need custom media to duplicate PSX or Saturn CDs as well as GDs, or maybe modded hardware, or both

the point is - it's not pits & lands or spiral revolutions stored in DB, it's information about logical layer
which is alike for all of those systems

you could include file which would define ring for every Saturn CD, wobble for every PSX, ring & HD for DC, etc
(or note those differences with flag or extension for that matter)
but it simply is useless because it applies to every medium from set in the same way

themabus wrote:

The only other system with needs a specific drive to dump its discs is Dreamcast because it's not a standard CD (you can say that all systems in DB are not standard CD, but this is not true. Protection, subcodes or TOC don't change anything! The only non-standard one is DC). And I never said to rename DC extension.

it doesn't matter how many drives can read what
hardware gets more flexible with time and standards get expandet - it's an variable you're basing your qualification upon

Dreamcast's GDs are the same Saturn protection + HD area + modded TOC

what about 90 minute CDs, 99 minute ones? Plextor's GigaRec? Overburning?
TOC you can modify yourself with .ccd for example
twin sectors, deliberate bad sectors - not every drive will read those right
CDs with larger offsets? - you need drive capable of overreading to access this data
and not so long ago you basically wouldn't be able to read RAW data as well as full subcode at all
you do need custom media to duplicate PSX or Saturn CDs as well as GDs, or maybe modded hardware, or both

the point is - it's not pits & lands or spiral revolutions stored in DB, it's information about logical layer
which is alike for all of those systems

you could include file which would define ring for every Saturn CD, wobble for every PSX, ring & HD for DC, etc
(or note those differences with flag or extension for that matter)
but it simply is useless because it applies to every medium from set in the same way

What's the meaning of this reply? what have to do all this with GC? If you don't know to much about GC why do you reply? Find me another system with "same Saturn protection + HD area + modded TOC" or similar to give a little sense to your reply...

It's quite clear that somebody is taking decisions about any aspect of the project justifying them with stupid or no sense matters or simply because they find this matters "cool". When somebody asks about, the only replies hide (or not) stupid or no sense matters or "because I like and it's cool".

At the end it's not important for me to have .GCM or .ISO (it seems so important for someone else), but at least give me a rational reply!

Rocknroms wrote:What's the meaning of this reply? what have to do all this with GC? If you don't know to much about GC why do you reply?

i reply like this because you keep drawing parallels between GC and DC
(if it's different with GC don't do this please)
and blaming no-intro for messing this up to be leecher friendly, portraing no-intro as something rather negative
(as opposite to you presumably motivated by more noble intentions)
which is absurd anyway - no-intro naming convention do not define extensions
if they were changed at same time it must have been a coincidence
and i'm yet to understand what leechers have to do with this

themabus wrote:

Rocknroms wrote:What's the meaning of this reply? what have to do all this with GC? If you don't know to much about GC why do you reply?

i reply like this because you keep drawing parallels between GC and DC
(if it's different with GC don't do this please)
and blaming no-intro for messing this up to be leecher friendly, portraing no-intro as something rather negative
(as opposite to you presumably motivated by more noble intentions)
which is absurd anyway - no-intro naming convention do not define extensions
if they were changed at same time it must have been a coincidence
and i'm yet to understand what leechers have to do with this

Ok, you don't understand anything, sorry!
I never said anything bad about no-intro and I'm not against no-intro (only I don't like the "full country" flag), but I've simply always said it's not suitable for CD media and I think everybody here saw the problems we have now, DB against dats.
No-intro doesn't mess up anything, if you really want to hear from me: it's you and another pair of mods who messed up anything. And I repeat for last time, nothing personally.
Unless you take it personally, read yourself again.

(as opposite to you presumably motivated by more noble intentions)

So my intentions should be devilish or something? Is it me who make changes in DB to accomplish his desires of renaming?
Again leechers? Where did you read I wrote about leechers = no-intro or similar, please don't put in my mounth words I've never said just to justify your ideas. I spoke of leechers = pakkiso and nothing else, is that wrong?

Here is the end line, the most costructive reply I got was by DJoneK that simply said "I don't like it" without any fantastic conclusion.

EDIT: I noticed now that a lot of posts have been deleted in this thread, not only the last ones, this makes discussion non-sense if someone read it for the first time.
It should be usefull to understand why some mods delete even posts of other mods especially when there are technical hints about discussion and nothing else. I wrote a post with 5-6 points to support my suggestion and it's not here anymore, well done.

EDIT2 and end: about leechers

Here is what I said

Huh, it has a lot to do. Why did you want no-intro (including all other changes)? Read again all the posts about (the old ones).

I simply mean that someone support the change to no intro convention to have more consideration on leechers because no-intro is older and know better than redump.org. Also other changes you suggested can help only leechers or collectors of roms and not DB integrity. It's not so difficult to understand, I said read all old posts about.