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i don't know about those but it looks like E and U re-releases always keep the same serial as original.
ok, but J doesn't and now it's like this:
if re-release has same exe name as original - it will be with the same serial in .dat
if exe has different name - this new serial will go to .dat
if exe is PSX.EXE - serial from case will go to .dat
if exe has wrong name (there are few) - i don't know what will happen
that's wrong.
what has exe to do with anything? imo all release serials (from case. and only those) should be listed, like:
Fun Japanese Game (J) (v1.0) [ABCD-00000]
Fun Japanese Game (J) (v1.1) [ABCD-00001]
Fun Japanese Game (J) (v1.2) [ABCD-00001, ABCD-00002]
but not exe names, God forbid! - all CDs from example may have exe: ABCD_000.00
and not Konami or other internal serials.
it's the same as with languages. if languages would be listed - it wouldn't be only the 1st one from the list but all.
and would developer state language differently e.g. Deutsch instead of German - we would not care, would we?
it's the same with serials.

edit:
in other words i believe that filename in .dat should identify:
1.game
2.region
3.version <| this could be a date, but it's better how it's now, imo - with those version numbers
4.release
example i provided above would not work for E and U region.
maybe we should change it at all then - besides serial add an edition, with letters
(or a short code for it, like PStB for PlayStation the Best).

obviously serials in non-Japan region fail to identify release and in Japan single serial fail to identify certain game.
currently it's wrong on that i'm certain.

edit:
why i think those 4 things should be in .dat? because this way files map back to original.
and we go for originals not vice versa so exe name - it doesn't make sense.
there is no way to trace 'Tekken (J) (v1.1) [SLPS-00040]' back to original without online-db.
imagine - db goes down and everyone is left with .dats. it will be the end.

edit:
how about this?:
Fun Japanese Game (J) (v1.0) [Original (ABCD-00000)]
Fun Japanese Game (J) (v1.1) [PStB (ABCD-00001)]
Fun Japanese Game (J) (v1.2) [PStB (ABCD-00001), PSOB (ABCD-00002)]

Fun Japanese Game Imported To USA (U) (v1.0) [Original (ABUD-00000)]
Fun Japanese Game Imported To USA (U) (v1.1) [BlaBla (ABUD-00000)]

Fun Japanese Game Imported To Europe (E) [Original, BlaBla, BlaBlaBla (ABED-00000)]

also this syntax might attract more people since it would demonstrate that many releases are really the same
majority still do not know that and to them files with current syntax do not seem different from everything else

i've edited 1st post a lot, if you've read it on RSS please take a look at forum and write your thoughts, if you care
thanks

IMO every progress is a step to hell and every stand is a possible step to heaven.
I think your renaming idea could be another step to arrive to fail to something like tosec naming convenction:

On UG many people wants languages, versions, etc. in the dat.
Here and there other people wants to use no-intro naming.
And so on and so on... mix those suggestions and you'll have a game name with 500-1000 chars.

Take care that your thougths can fit also for other systems, imagine a Saturn disc renamed like this. By the way the problem you want to solve affected only a very liittle minority of games.

I think the best thing will be to have an offline db.

yeah offline renamer would solve a lot, i guess.
syntax i provided it's ok if you don't like it, it's just an example
but such concept would be much more useful imo.
serial in one case relates to title in the other to release.
in fact in both of those cases it's redundant.
i think i voted for inclusion of serials previously myself.
maybe i was wrong. i liked serials because of subjectivity of romanization but well, we could live with that.

currently as i see it database is getting corrupted. it will be difficult to correct it later.
exe names and developer serials should never have been on the same level as Sony assigned serials - it's just plain wrong.

also i don't think this should apply on other systems. for example PC hasn't got serials at all - that's fine.
in the same fashion PSX could have different syntax.

look:
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.0) [SLUS-00152]
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.1) [SLUS-00152]
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.2) [SLUS-00152]
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.3) [SLUS-00152]
serial=name. name is in english. what's the point?
ther's none.
all you see is that some images are newer than others.

but would it be like this for example:
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.0) [O]
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.1) [GH]
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.2) [GH]
Tomb Raider (U) (v1.3) [CE]
now you can see that ther's 3 releases indexed and besides ther's two possible versions in Greatest Hits.
that's much more descriptive.

Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.0) [SLPM-86023]
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.1) [SLPM-86023]
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.2) [SLPM-86023]
again - what's the point? it's unclear which releases were dumped, and which weren't.
in fact, seeing this, i would think either that this title is always associated with this single serial, which is wrong
or if i would know it's untrue (many don't), i would think the rest releases aren't dumped

Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.0) [O]
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.1) [O]
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.2) [PStB, PSOB]
two originals
and two other releases are in fact the same
so ther's actually four dumps, not three.
also you can see right away that v1.2 was dumped twice - people would trust us more.

would we handle Japanese serials correct and accept them as associated with releases it would be the same:
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.0) [SLPM-86023]
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.1) [SLPM-86023]
Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.2) [SLPM-86073, SLPM-87328]
but since it's different for rest of the regions those edition abbreviation would solve everything and there would be
one valid pattern at last that work for all regions, not like now.

offline renamer could be used to include or exclude certaint tags (like serial) but this concept i believe should be applied.
it's wrong to strech Japanese CDs to the USA indexing pattern - it will not work.

edit:
imo current aiming for single serial only confuse people.
.dat is final product of our effort. it's what the rest of the people will see - not online db.
so it's important for this information to be as descriptive as possible. redundancy is unacceptable.
we should squeeze in there as much differences as possible, not similarities. <| that's how databases work - whole concept.
also maybe ther's currently not that much re-releases in db but it will change as db evolves.
i have quite a lot of 'PlayStation the Best' myself yet unverified so it's not like just few exceptions at all.

according to sonyindex thers ~370 Japanese CDs in PStB/PSOB range alone.
ther's a lot more with all Limited/Special Editions and smaller sets of budged re-releases.
roughly it would be ~10% of whole PSX Japan set

btw if you take a look at Akumajou Dracula X - Gekka no Yasoukyoku (J) (v1.2)
https://redump.info/disc/4684/
it's already wrong in db
both 'PlayStation the Best' and 'PSone Books' are listed, but sole serial (not counting exe name) is: SLPM-87328
this can not be right so either ther's too many editions or too few serials - we have to guess, ther's no way to be certain...
wouldn't there be exe name in serial list - such errors would be easy to notice since there would be as many serials as releases.

any arguments please.

1. what is the logic behind current assignation of serials to Japanese titles?
2. why are serials relevant at all in .dat file?
3. what is the purpose of .dat?
to provide summary of current state of db and allow people to verify their backups from originals: release with release
this way encouraging participation in project
OR
to comfort people that have downloaded some title somewhere that it match with some backup from unidentifiable original and to encourage redownload of those that don't
OR
something else?

You should discuss this with Dremora, because he's still the only person who can change anything.

I also think that for v1.1 etc. dumps that perhaps it would be good to have the # or whatever's printed behind it on the disc in the filename (if such characters are possible in filenames)..

For JAP games with different printed serials for a same version maybe it's best to use the internal serial in the filename?

The current logic is that it only uses the first serial that is entered in the db (for easy identification), so if you put a different serial first it will use that one. I'm not sure what's the point of having 4 serials in a filename. It would be the same as having the barcode or publisher or languages or whatever imho. For this information we have the db.

IMHO we should either:

- only use internal serials in filenames and put any other 'external' information in the db.
- switch to the No-Intro naming convention and have new issues (like too long filenames) to keep us busy

themabus wrote:1. what is the logic behind current assignation of serials to Japanese titles?

Internal serials + disc/box serials.

themabus wrote:2. why are serials relevant at all in .dat file?

I have always been against serials in dat files, so switching to the No-Intro naming convention seems to be a nice idea for me

themabus wrote:3. what is the purpose of .dat?

Dat files do not have to contain all the information from the db. Their only purpose is to identify dump, so any information which doesn't participate in making filenames unique is redundant in dat.