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i did the subs not with PX-760A, i did them with an other LG drive, this maybe be the reason,

but it does not mean that "all his dumps are suspicious now"

Maybe these ones weren't read with Plextor. If he check his dumps at least twice on different drives and another one can read them, it's fine. But this particular one reads subchannels wrong and completely unsuitable for dumping.

okay, i will use PX-760A to read the subs out, but which tool is the best for it?

Use the latest perfectrip in .ccd mode with 100b mode and a low speed (cdreader can't extract a full images of mixed mode cd's afaik).

ps. of the 52 saturn games that you dumped, 12 are verified.. also, I don't see how subchannel reading can go wrong?

There's always a random block (1-3 sectors, usually) after the track02 pregap taken from the earlier part of the CD, also there's the same sector before and right after that block.

01 02 00 00 00 03 00 05 56 04 -- pregap
01 02 00 00 00 02 00 05 56 05 -- pregap
01 02 00 00 00 01 00 05 56 06 -- pregap
01 02 00 00 00 00 00 05 56 07 -- 1st copy of this sector, Q-Index is 00
01 02 00 00 01 74 00 05 54 07 -- taken from the earlier part of the CD
01 02 00 00 01 73 00 05 54 08 -- taken from the earlier part of the CD
01 02 00 00 01 72 00 05 54 09 -- taken from the earlier part of the CD
01 02 01 00 00 00 00 05 56 07 -- 2nd copy of this sector, Q-Index is 01
01 02 01 00 00 01 00 05 56 08

There are also various offsets along the whole sub.

iR0b0t wrote:okay, i will use PX-760A to read the subs out, but which tool is the best for it?
i can also use cdreader

I'd like to see clonecd ones at first. Both clonecd and PR 100b ones would be even better.

subs repost:

https://redump.info/disc/5088/   perfectrip
https://redump.info/disc/5250/   perfectrip
https://redump.info/disc/5194/   perfectrip
https://redump.info/disc/5196/   perfectrip
https://redump.info/disc/4892/   perfectrip

Subs taken by iR0b0t were enough oo verify EAN problem. I too see that they are not right for a complete analisys like other ones, but there was no dat-audio to check or more complex situation, so I don't see any problem. iR0b0ts dumps are right.
By the way for archiving it's better to have sub in the correct way (ps: I prefer to use Alcohol instead of CloneCD, this progam is simply horrible to install and use).
I confirm again, as said by Jackal, that Cdreader stops extraction at the end of data track on 99% on mixed CDs).

The SS games that have to be checked again with a new dump are these:

https://redump.info/disc/2674/
https://redump.info/disc/3811/
https://redump.info/disc/3315/
https://redump.info/disc/1629/

and Gale Racer, but if that sector is pregap (if it syncs with audio but it's data) it must stand in audio track (like for some CD32). Simply look at sector on CD.
Magical Hoppers has clearly a data sector moved of +30(+wo) on a Plextor, so this is part of audio track. It's a sector, it' in pregap. If you play it on PC you hear a "clink", but on real machine/emulator it cannot be heard. Moreover, it's not a game audiotrack, but the copyright stuff. Indeed, if a dumped game has a "clink" on a game audiotrack and you hear it in gameplay, probably we can have even a bad dump or a signed disc.

About verifing discs with ring code ending with C XX, this is a loss of time because it has already discussed that those discs are "strange" (multiple alternates, different pregaps, different write offsets, etc.).

i'm sorry, but imho regarding gap sizes this is going way too far.
what's the point of checking every CD manually, when in the end it means so little - it's the same data anyway...
why not just take single pattern for gap layout (like data->audio 2:00 audio->audio 1:74)
and go with it whenever deviations from this pattern are small enought, say 01-02 sectors

if ther's some really strange gaps, like KOF'95 - ok, it's different then.
but what's the point of investing time to check whether gap should be 2:01 or 2:00
and after all this, probabbly end up with something like:
0:00
2:00
2:00
2:01
2:00
...
imho it does not make sense anyway...
why not have all neat 1:74 or 2:00 gaps instead?

edit:
i mean - if ther's difficulties with drive and it reports some gaps wrongly because of subcode
i don't think it's a problem really - just go with pattern, no need to analyze thoroughly
(except maybe take a look at sector content at the end of 1st track; beginning of 2nd, where data changes to audio.
but everyone should be doing this anyway)
and when gap structure is analyzed and decision made to keep one or more little different gaps
(because it says so in subcode) - it's still wrong imho

themabus wrote:what's the point of checking every CD manually

It's not needed anymore, there's a tool almost ready. 2themabus: i'd like to have some PCE CD ones, if possible (better some tougher ones).

2Rocknroms: your drive has another disease. Most of your subs also have a similar issue (track02 index MSF offsets before and after the pregap). Most, but not all - seems you've used a different drive for some of them.

Cyberbots - Fullmetal Madness (J) (T-1216G) - bug
Gussun Oyoyo S (J) (T-26101G) - bug
Whizz (J) (T-36102G) - bug
Puzzle Bubble 2X (J) (T-1106G) - bug
Samurai Spirits - Amakusa Kourin (J) (T-3116G) - bug
Chibi Maruko-Chan no Taisen Puzzledama (J) (T-9507G) - bug

Gunbird (J) (T-14402G) - no bug
Kyutenkai (J) (T-1801G) - no bug

C) Wrong "track02" pregap, bigger pregap and so smaller data track and sectors of data in "track02" pregap.

Solution: Forget PR and dump the old way IsoBuster+EAC.

This problem was found in the following games:

- Puyo Puyo Sun (J) - https://redump.info/disc/3766/
- Waku Waku Puyo Puyo Dungeon (J) - https://redump.info/disc/3751/

Moreover the following games have wrong pregap detection both on PR and EAC with a Plextor:

- Panzer Dragoon (J) - https://redump.info/disc/2636/ and https://redump.info/disc/3243/
- SteamGear Mash (J) - https://redump.info/disc/3890/

3) Games with INDEX > 1

Dark Savior (J) - https://redump.info/disc/5045/ - real cue
Magical Drop (J) - https://redump.info/disc/4206/ - real cue
Monster Slider (J) - https://redump.info/disc/5052/ - real cue
Prikura - Princess Clara Daisakusen (J) - https://redump.info/disc/4916/ - real cue

Can you put these subs somewhere? About multiple index ones -- seems, EAC has a serious bug with postgap detecting, checked my EAC-generated cues, some tracks have totally wrong indexes and last tracks postgaps are missing.