Gamecube renaming after moving to no-intro...

[themabus]

I never said anything bad about no-intro and I'm not against no-intro (only I don't like the "full country" flag)

title reads 'Gamecube renaming after moving to no-intro...'
here's what you said about no-intro in this thread alone:

PS: If you want no-intro use at least custom estensions for equal sized images (gamecube, wii) as they do.

Ok another point to chaos. By the way it's not so important, it's not me who wanted no-intro convention, but it seems that somebody is using no-intro convention to match his wishes (see also what Fireball said), am I wrong?

Because you have choosen no-intro and naming convention have a different extention for Nintendo stuff? Because they are non common DVDs?

Huh, it has a lot to do. Why did you want no-intro (including all other changes)? Read again all the posts about (the old ones).

We (not everybody and a minority) choose to change to no-intro.

Uh 2, yesterday we have to put stupid flags in dats because people cannot understand if they have a good dump, now we have to use hacked dumps extensions because people knows we are redump. What do you decide tomorrow?

quite obvious to me you create association of this topic, which you are upset about, with move to no-intro convention
'another point to chaos', 'stupid flags', 'hacked dumps extensions'
you do drag your negative feelings about no-intro along
'it's not me who wanted no-intro', 'you have choosen no-intro', 'Why did you want no-intro', 'We (not everybody and a minority) choose to change to no-intro'
you disassociate yourself from decision to move to no-intro,
hence putting youreslf in opposition as if no-intro=bad, you=good

i'm sorry if i misunderstood anything

Where did you read I wrote about leechers = no-intro or similar, please don't put in my mounth words I've never said just to justify your ideas. I spoke of leechers = pakkiso and nothing else, is that wrong?

Ok, now I understand... another change made only to help leechers (see pakkiso compression), am I wrong?

here you go about leechers reffering to change of extension, i'm not making this up

Also other changes you suggested can help only leechers or collectors of roms and not DB integrity. It's not so difficult to understand, I said read all old posts about.

could you explain please, what changes can help leechers?
how one (besides wrong one) from several (broken relation) serials in filenames
and separation of records with generic flags contribute to db integrity?
as far as i know you fill db with data from real life, you do not make things up when it gets complicated
for example: if you'd have records of people and there would be 2 persons 'John Smith'
you'd use person's id or father's name, or birthdate, or telephone nr., or address -
something real to make it clear which person is referred to
under no circumstances would you do this: 'John Smith (v1.0)' & 'John Smith (v1.1)', even if they're twins
.dat is just an output of db, it should not present different data from what is in db
it could exclude some flags or be shortened with abbreviations for example, but not create completely different relations
what makes you think it's different with CDs?

but I've simply always said it's not suitable for CD media and I think everybody here saw the problems we have now, DB against dats.

most problems i see are legacy from previous naming:
flags being filled with conflicting values, e.g. (demo) in 'Version', when there is version present,
or in 'Edition' when there is one
conflicting real versions with artificial ones, leaving 'Alt' as only means of breaking such records apart
pseudo-flags in title field denoting bonus medium or edition, etc.
broken relations with bonus media
neglecting those problems any longer would only make situation more severe in future
no-intro actually provide means to resolve those problems by introducing additional flags
and definitions of how to use them, though some changes are required, imho, i'm not denying that

[Rocknroms]

My last reply, if you don't understand I think it's vain to explain anymore

quite obvious to me you create association of this topic, which you are upset about, with move to no-intro convention
'another point to chaos', 'stupid flags', 'hacked dumps extensions'
you do drag your negative feelings about no-intro along
'it's not me who wanted no-intro', 'you have choosen no-intro', 'Why did you want no-intro', 'We (not everybody and a minority) choose to change to no-intro'
you disassociate yourself from decision to move to no-intro,
hence putting youreslf in opposition as if no-intro=bad, you=good

i'm sorry if i misunderstood anything

Yes you misunderstood, but I know well after this last post of yours that it's a problem of our days, most of people see only black or white.
I create an association simply because the changes happen together.

Thanks for reporting something I wrote that was deleted so it's more clear that I have nothing against no-intro but only how it seems you and some others want it to be used.
First,  to match DB and dats you have to change DB structure and you cannot add tags in game name to match no-intro. You'll have perfect no-intro dats but a confused DB, I think Fireball wants to say the same.
'another point to chaos', 'stupid flags', 'hacked dumps extensions': these were referred to your actions / words and not to no-intro, it seems to much clear. I'll never say that a glass is useless, but if you break it on the head of someone it hurts, and you cannot say I hate glasses because of this assertion. It's clear now?

What I don't like of no-intro new convention (I mean the last one created a pair of years ago):

1) Long country flags: (E) is better than (Europe).

2) Same as above and something indeed you'd like: (UE) is better than (USA, Europe) ---> this is something awfull IMO.

3) This is the part related to Redump / Digital Media: carts has a REV stamped on circuit, indeed CDs/DVDs has a VER. in header or filesys and sometimes also in ringcode.
First I'd like you and all to understand that REV flag in no-intro has nothing to do with ALT flag, take a look at no-intro dats and you see they use even ALT flag when there's nothing else to differ two roms / disks.
Some systems has A or B or else in ring code so you can use this letter as revision like in no-intro, but you could even find for example 2 disc with A and 2 different VER. And all other systems? You have to use VER. flag. because there's nothing else and you cannot set random REV tags. IMO for digital media we should use VER. to avoid confusion.
Now go on SS, here you have to use ALT flag because there's nothing else known until now that can differ 2 dumps with same REV, DATE, VER., SERIAL, etc. Moreover SS is the only sytem which have all those ALTs you hate, but we cannot do anything. Moreover no-intro accepts ALT flag, but you don't like it. So?

AGAIN: ALT & REV ARE 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT FLAGS, YOU CANNOT USE ONE INSTEAD OF THE OTHER.
REV => different revision
ALT => same revision but different checksum

under no circumstances would you do this: 'John Smith (v1.0)' & 'John Smith (v1.1)', even if they're twins

This is another of yours, so indeed is it good to have 'John Smith (rev A)' & 'John Smith (rev B)'!?

I concer with you that we have to use EDITION flag to identify a dump, but this way for example:

Game 1 (USA)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

and not

Game 1 (USA) (Original)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

and if you have this situation:

Game 1 ---> One Limited and one Original dump match
Game 1 ---> One or more Limited dumps

like this again

Game 1 (USA)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

and not

Game 1 (USA) (Original, Limited)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

I's obvious we have to make changes to no-intro convention, but we aren't no-intro even if some no-intro members are also members here.
We had to change DB and to find a no-intro compromise before switching to no-intro, indeed someone seemed to ansious to go to no-intro.

Now it's clear?

most problems i see are legacy from previous naming:
flags being filled with conflicting values, e.g. (demo) in 'Version', when there is version present,
or in 'Edition' when there is one
conflicting real versions with artificial ones, leaving 'Alt' as only means of breaking such records apart
pseudo-flags in title field denoting bonus medium or edition, etc.
broken relations with bonus media

This has nothing to do with old renaming or no-intro. These are simply mistakes and no-intro doesn't solve anything. AGAIN REV is not ALT.
To add any additional FLAG in dat we have a particoular field, so if something is added in filename field is a mistake. Indeed for Bonus CD it's different IMO, this has to be shown in DB filenames as they are no edition or else. Or did you want to add "Bonus CD" in Edition for more confusion!?

.dat is just an output of db

Yes so it's implicit that DB is father of .dat, you have to change DB structure to output correct dats (something that Dremora is doing) but you cannot adapt DB field entries to match no-intro or other wishes.

Last thing. Again leechers, read the previous post last EDIT.
Going back to Gamecube, topic of this thread.
I simply asked why we had to change an extension that was used also by us since the first GC dump and after I read the last pakkiso (obviously I know that program can be modified to compress everything) info with new compression for DVD isos it seems to me the extension was changed only to help leechers who compress and share images and who burn them (GCM is not a standard extension used by burning software) or that load them on Wiis with new iso loaders and so on..
You want to use .ISO, ok but I have no rational reply. Simply.

[themabus]

Thanks for reporting something I wrote that was deleted so it's more clear that I have nothing against no-intro but only how it seems you and some others want it to be used.

you're welcome

First,  to match DB and dats you have to change DB structure and you cannot add tags in game name to match no-intro. You'll have perfect no-intro dats but a confused DB, I think Fireball wants to say the same.

that's what i'm trying to say, i don't believe F1ReB4LL thinks the same though

we've switched the naming to No-Intro's convention

Demo, Taikenban, Sampleban, Sample, Promo, Hibaihin, Not For Sale, Shikyouhin, Mihonhin/Mihon Hin, etc. should be in Edition. You can name it Sample, Demo or whatever in the dats, it's not that critical.

People, we're not a set of dats, like No-Intro, we're a DATABASE, which has its own fields, which should be properly filled for each entry and dat generation here is a secondary feature. If you don't like the naming in the dats - talk to Dremora or write your own generator or make/fix the dats manually and host them somewhere, but don't even dare to tweak the DB fields to match your f@#$ing dats!

This is another of yours, so indeed is it good to have 'John Smith (rev A)' & 'John Smith (rev B)'!?

no, but you could have e.g. John Smith (555-1212) & John Smith (555-7777) denoting telephone nr. for example

I concer with you that we have to use EDITION flag to identify a dump, but this way for example:

Game 1 (USA)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

and not

Game 1 (USA) (Original)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

sure, the same as with most flags for no-intro - ones with default value are omitted

and if you have this situation:

Game 1 ---> One Limited and one Original dump match
Game 1 ---> One or more Limited dumps

like this again

Game 1 (USA)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

and not

Game 1 (USA) (Original, Limited)

Game 2 (USA) (Limited)

no, the other way around - the same as with the languages
(e.g. you don't drop them whenever English is present)
by transferring partial information to output you loose relations
there could be bonus media bundled with Limited Edition for example
or it could happen that CD1 of other edition match with Original but CD2 don't
but generally this is information that just shouldn't be lost -
if it's 'Custom Edition' in real life - that's how it should be in db, that's how people will look it up, 
and that's how it should appear in .dat respectively

I's obvious we have to make changes to no-intro convention, but we aren't no-intro even if some no-intro members are also members here.
We had to change DB and to find a no-intro compromise before switching to no-intro, indeed someone seemed to ansious to go to no-intro.

sure, why did you seemed so amused to extent of clapping when i said that?
/viewtopic.php?t=2870

Clap clap!

This is the chaos that will be and why I don't agree with the change. Who cares if Bonus CD is in a Limited Edition or not? It's archived in DB, what else do you need? So why not adding even dates (please in this case insert also "A.D.", it's more cool!), company and so on like tosec shit?
Themabus, this oddity again?
And so we have to write a poem? Why not adding even the birth date of Publisher's dog as I said?

and you go on after little while

Again I see other comment about avoiding v.1x, etc. THIS IS CHAOS! And I respect everyone's opinion, but there's a limit to this.

I thought you understood but I was wrong.
When you have "Limited Edition" in DB what the **** do you need to add it to dat name?
Moreover, a lot of CD media were moved from their real case (rental, etc. I did it too for some cds of my collection because they were damaged. Most PS2 discs are the same on Original and other editions, and so on) so how could people really know at 100% if they have a proper edition? And you want to add this bullshit even in dat names?

maybe i'm seeing black again

This has nothing to do with old renaming or no-intro. These are simply mistakes and no-intro doesn't solve anything.

but it does, there simply were not enough flags to handle this and even less rules resulting in situation we have
where would you put (Demo), providing  Version and Edition field are both already filled?

Indeed for Bonus CD it's different IMO, this has to be shown in DB filenames as they are no edition or else. Or did you want to add "Bonus CD" in Edition for more confusion!?

no, i would prefer to mark Bonus with stand alone flag alike to Demo, Beta, and so on
(maybe it even could be this same 'Devstatus' flag, i'm not sure,
i would have to check ordering and situations there currently are in db)
title is just that - title

Yes so it's implicit that DB is father of .dat, you have to change DB structure to output correct dats (something that Dremora is doing) but you cannot adapt DB field entries to match no-intro or other wishes.

then why didn't you let this opinion be known to mr. announcer or whoever is pushing him around?

You want to use .ISO, ok but I have no rational reply. Simply.

to be frank i couldn't care less about this extension
wouldn't you attack no-intro and pakkiso (that's how i saw it, i'm sorry) i wouldn't reply at all
i tried to explain to you how i see it, though, why this change could have been made - you keep ignoring it
you kept ignoring what iR0b0t and other people wrote - those posts are deleted now
maybe you did it yourself - i don't know, it wouldn't surprise me
if you didn't, ask Dremora to look it up in logs

[iR0b0t]

you kept ignoring what iR0b0t and other people wrote - those posts are deleted now

Yes, I deleted them myself, thus were my postings and he ignored everything I wrote, I don't want to spend my time for something and be ignored in any way... So, I am sorry...

[Rocknroms]

Ok now it's finally clear at least to me: if someone is not on your side or accomplish with your ideas he is ignoring you (how could you say I ignored you if I reply to every msg, iR0b0t? I remember you deleted also my posts, this is not so correct if you now affirm I've ignored you!) or take it personally (yes themabus, go on with your "black" about me even suggesting I had deleted my own posts. Here you have passed the border, I like you to know!).
Normally people move discussion to a personal stage when they have no more ideas about the real discussion.

but you could have e.g. John Smith (555-1212) & John Smith (555-7777) denoting telephone nr. for example

Yes and for example this is the "old renaming we used" because tel ns. are serials. Another of your suggestions.
Ah and again, you didn't understand anything even if I explained line by line.
You haven't understood yet that in all my posts you report up again I was referring to your fantastic suggestions and how someone (see you, for example) wants to use no-intro switch, like a great fun game.
On both renaming there are all the flags you need unless new ones we have to create because of digital media issue, by the way those flags aren't the ones you continue to suggest like they were the Graal.
About Fireball, he said explicit that Dremora is working on a new DB when he replied you, and his words are very similar to mine... so what the fuck I have to tell him? Who is ignoring whom?

Ok, from now on I'll try really to ignore you (so you'll be happy) unless when you, both themabus and iR0b0t, will confuse new users and dumpers.

EDIT: Ah themabus, to finish, if you fix EAN sectors in your SCD/SS dump entries, at least post subs or advise "someone" you have checked them!

[iR0b0t]

Ok, from now on I'll try really to ignore you (so you'll be happy) unless when you, both themabus and iR0b0t, will confuse new users and dumpers.

If you mean I am confusing anybody (except you) and write only shit there, then I really don't need to make any tries to find new dumping ways & GUIDES for XBOX/360 dumping etc.

Why should I do something when there is "somebody" who knows everything better and tell me I am saying a bull shit ?

You sounds for me like somebody who thinks he is a GOD !
Why don't you do the whole work then ?

[Rocknroms]

Did you read somewhere I said you or themabus said ALWAYS bullshit!? Did you read somewhere I said your XBOX research is bullshit!? Did you read somewhere I said themabus' ice, remove and so on are bullshit (I regard him more than once)!? Did you read somewhere I said my words are the Truth!?
Indeed you can read I wanted and needed explanation about your changes and assertions I find weird and / or wrong and I got no rational replies, unless an implicit "because we like it",  and "lols" or "something else" about my replies or tries to change my words, that's all.

STOP

[iR0b0t]

okay!

we can speak about something else, but please not about "extension change" anymore, i didn't change it, but i support this change, please don't ask me yet again why.

seems nobody else want join this discussion, and it's closed for me now, that's why i deleted all my answers and your question at me, you can discuss with everybody else about it, but me, i have nothing against.

[themabus]

(yes themabus, go on with your "black" about me even suggesting I had deleted my own posts. Here you have passed the border, I like you to know!).
Normally people move discussion to a personal stage when they have no more ideas about the real discussion.

it's not me who wanted no-intro convention, but it seems that somebody is using no-intro convention to match his wishes (see also what Fireball said), am I wrong? (pointing @me)

It's quite clear that somebody is taking decisions about any aspect of the project justifying them with stupid or no sense matters or simply because they find this matters "cool". When somebody asks about, the only replies hide (or not) stupid or no sense matters or "because I like and it's cool". (obviously pointing @me)

Ok, you don't understand anything, sorry!
No-intro doesn't mess up anything, if you really want to hear from me: it's you and another pair of mods who messed up anything.
Is it me who make changes in DB to accomplish his desires of renaming?
please don't put in my mounth words I've never said just to justify your ideas
Also other changes you suggested can help only leechers or collectors of roms and not DB integrity. It's not so difficult to understand,

if you don't understand I think it's vain
I have nothing against no-intro but only how it seems you and some others want it to be used
First I'd like you and all to understand
indeed someone seemed to ansious to go to no-intro (presumably pointing at me)

Ah and again, you didn't understand anything even if I explained line by line
You haven't understood yet that in all my posts you report up again I was referring to your fantastic suggestions and how someone (see you, for example) wants to use no-intro switch, like a great fun game.

haven't you passed this border long before me, Rocknroms?

About Fireball, he said explicit that Dremora is working on a new DB when he replied you, and his words are very similar to mine... so what the fuck I have to tell him? Who is ignoring whom?

I just hope Dremora is serious about writing a new site, where noone will be able to edit the entries so easy, because with such a "smart" crew, which members rename everything 10 times a month on their own without any discussions and without any logic, this project is going into f@#king nowhere. Over.

talk to Dremora or write your own generator or make/fix the dats manually and host them somewhere, but don't even dare to tweak the DB fields to match your f@#$ing dats! I've already tired of massive renamings by themabus and Jackal, which clearly look to me like acts of sabotage in order to screw the database. Guess, we'll be forced to harshly reduce the number of mods soon.

where? as i see it basically F1ReB4LL told i should go play with myself

Yes and for example this is the "old renaming we used" because tel ns. are serials. Another of your suggestions.
Ah and again, you didn't understand anything even if I explained line by line.

it's an general attribute from real life, opposite to artificial v1.x or Alt, it could be serial in some cases
but you don't understand this, Rocknroms: serials generally won't work -
they can not replace editions, they do not apply to all systems the same,
not even all regions and would you have serials it should be then whole set not just 1st one
otherwise you're loosing data from output - it doesn't map back to real media anymore - it's useless
it's like you'd have a db of cars for example
and there would be that particular Ford model from year 1980, 1981 and 1982,
different colors, tires - such little things
and you'd make an catalog listing only Ford (1980), because it's oldest or something
one of those later releases could come with some accessories probably
but in your catalog you would still associate those with this (1980) as if they'd come with every single release
what sense does this make?! it's a crooked reality - not the way things are
why would anyone want to use this catalog?

You haven't understood yet that in all my posts you report up again I was referring to your fantastic suggestions and how someone (see you, for example) wants to use no-intro switch, like a great fun game.

could you elaborate, please

what i'm suggesting all the time is to modify db to actually have those additional flags
(no-intro, largely because you kept protesting everything else, because you like serials so much)
with some specific to redump.org corrections applied (like editions for example)

i thought we pretty much agreed on everything earlier today,
even editions, that you protested so passionately all the time,
except cases where there would be multiple ones

now you go again about how great it was with serials and how i'm messing it all up
those problems i noted - originating from lack of flags and rules we had and still have,
and those listed are by no means all,
do not exist in your universe, i guess
would you keep sticking single internal serial to multiple editions,
creating flags within title and version fields, breaking records apart with v1.x or Alt, etc?
well it's not even an database it is a mess, Rocknroms, databases do not work this way
it is a pity you do not see this

[Rocknroms]

Hey themabus, now I have to ask you... how old are you?
My words are pointing at your ideas and not at you, indeed you are pointing at me in your last posts. Expecially...

you kept ignoring what iR0b0t and other people wrote - those posts are deleted now
maybe you did it yourself - i don't know, it wouldn't surprise me

Do you know the difference? I never said you are dumb, I said your ideas, the ones on renaming, are dumb. Do you know the difference?
There's nothing offensive in Fireball's words too, you should know well he often speaks rude. And I want to remember that someone else said me I can make my own dats when I didn't agree to no-intro switch. Did I take it personally?
You want me to elaborate more and more things I have explained times and times. No sorry I'm bored. If you think I'm personally vs you or vs no-intro, go on I will simply ignore you.

iR0bot, ok! Probably nobody reply because they have not so many infos or because they don't care (that doesn't mean everybody likes .ISO) or simply because the discussion was at the border of flames and they don't want to be involved.

END